Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Messiah
Posted: January 21, 2012 Filed under: articles by Sami Zaatari, Christianity, Islam | Tags: judaism 8 Comments »Jews, Christians, and Muslims agree in the concept of there being a Messiah. A man who would be a king, a leader, a man of great standing, a man of honor, and a man of God. In the Jewish Bible we read about how the Messiah will usher in a kingdom of God, a kingdom in which the Messiah shall ruler over as the leader, a kingdom in which people will serve God, and a kingdom in which there will be peace and security. In the Gospels of the New Testament we read about how Jesus preached about the upcoming kingdom of God. What about Islam? How does the belief in the Messiah relate to Islam? This is a topic that is not often touched upon, Muslims often say yes Jesus is the Messiah according to the Quran, and often leave at that failing to fully appreciate what this actually means and entails.
Within the texts of Islam we are also told of this kingdom that will be ruled by the Messiah, namely Jesus, and that this kingdom will in fact be ushered in when Jesus returns in his second coming and that this would be a major sign of the end times. Just like how the Jewish Bible teaches, this will be a great kingdom, which will serve God, and a kingdom in which peace and security shall reign.
Interestingly it is the Christian concept of Jesus that has caused problems in it’s own understandings of who the Messiah actually was and what he was going to do. According to the Gospels, Jesus who was the Messiah, was in fact captured, and held to a humiliating death on the cross. So humiliating in fact that Jesus supposedly cried ‘My God my God why have you forsaken (abandoned) me’ as he was about to die. This picture of the Messiah stands in stark contrast with what was actually taught about the Messiah, for the Messiah was not to be humiliated and killed by his enemies as a common criminal, rather the Messiah was to be a king who would reign over his enemies and establish his kingdom. As a result of this the Gospels stand in direct contrast to what and who the Messiah actually was. In fact if one were to read the Gospels themselves, it records the disciples being saddened by the death of Jesus, it was a major jolt to their faith. Now why would that be so? Because they believed that Jesus was the Messiah, and according to their correct understanding, the Messiah was not going to be killed by his enemies, rather he was going to establish his kingdom and triumph over his enemies.
Christian missionaries may argue that Jesus did in fact conquer over his enemies by rising from the dead after 3 days, yet the problem for them is that this was not taught about the Messiah, this is a Christian concept that they themselves invented. The Jews never believed that the Messiah was going to die and rise in 3 days, surely if this was such an important cornerstone of God’s divine plan for the Messiah, then surely he would have taught about it. Missionaries may once again argue that God did in fact foretell the death of the Messiah, yet if that was the case, then why were the disciples of Jesus saddened by his death, and why were they totally not expecting it to happen? Surely if God had foretold of this, then they alongside all the other Jewish followers of Jesus would have been expecting this, rather than being ignorant about it, and being completely saddened by his death. Secondly when one reads the Gospel of Luke one reads that the disciples were expecting Jesus to establish the kingdom, if God had foretold of the Messiah’s death and rising why did they not say they were expecting Jesus to rise in a few days, and why were they not excited and happy awaiting such a miraculous event if indeed it was foretold in their scripture? The answer is simple, it’s because no such teaching existed, there was no belief in a dying and rising Messiah, so future Christians after Jesus simply invented such a teaching to rescue Jesus from being a false Messiah, for if he was killed by his enemies as a common criminal. So what better way to fix this mess up? Simply say he was actually raised from the dead in 3 days. Yet the problem remains no matter what as the Messiah was not going to be killed by his enemies as a common criminal.
How does Islam play into this? Interestingly enough, for Islam, there are no problems, as Jesus was never killed by his enemies. In the Quran we get a contrasting version of events, according to the Quran God performed a miraculous deed and saved Jesus from death, God had saved Jesus from his enemies, and by doing so Jesus had truly triumphed over his enemies as God had foiled their plans. According to Islam God had raised Jesus unto himself, God had raised Jesus into paradise, where he awaits his eventual return, in which he shall establish his kingdom, i.e. the kingdom of God that was foretold in the Jewish Bible, and the kingdom of God that was taught by Jesus in the Gospels.
The Jewish Bible stresses that the Messiah would conquer evil before he establishes his kingdom, as there would be oppression and an evil force in place of which the Messiah would come and break. This belief and concept of the Messiah is also found and continued within Islam, as Islam teaches that when Jesus returns, he will first slay the anti-Christ, and then he shall establish his kingdom.
So when it comes down to it, Islam doesn’t merely call Jesus the Messiah simply for the sake of it with no meaning, Islam teaches the great significance of Jesus and what he will do, Islam reminds the people of who the Messiah is, and what he will do. The reason why it is important for this to be said is because Christian missionaries often like to claim that Islam has no actual proper understanding of who the Messiah is, and what he will do. They claim that Islam merely calls Jesus the Messiah but devoid of all substance of what the Messiah actually is. It is very important to know the actual facts and that these claims are completely false as Islam demonstrates that it does hold an important role for Jesus as the Messiah, a role that was taught previously in the Jewish scripture, a role that the Jews had believed in, and if anything it is the Christian missionaries own scripture that contain the contradiction and error in the true understanding of the Messiah.
Interestingly enough a large reason as to why Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah is because of Christianity and what it invented concerning Jesus, that he died and rose for the sins of the world, and that he was God and the unique divine Son of God, it is all of these teachings that have made most Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah as all of these concepts are completely foreign to their Jewish Bible and what they were taught within it concerning the coming of Messiah.
That was very interesting, and quite informative.
I have a much better idea now as to how you view
the Messiah. What I don’t know, and don’t understand
is whether or not a Divine Feminine principle occurs
within your texts. No Mother Mary, or Mother Nature?
Just curious. Thank you for filling me in here. Really.
Peace to you all today, Uncle Tree
Greetings guys..
You said :
“This picture of the Messiah stands in stark contrast with what was actually taught about the Messiah, for the Messiah was not to be humiliated and killed by his enemies as a common criminal, rather the Messiah was to be a king who would reign over his enemies and establish his kingdom.”
Let the Rabbis speak for themselves (despite their antichristian tendency) :
-And when Israel is sinful, the Messiah seeks for mercy upon them, as it is written, “By His stripes we were healed, and He carried the sins of many; and made intercession for the transgressors.”** (B’reshith Rabbah)
-Midrash Ruth Rabbah: 2:14 “Another explanation (of Ruth ii.14): — He is speaking of king Messiah; `Come hither,’ draw near to the throne; `and eat of the bread,’ that is, the bread of the kingdom; `and dip thy morsel in the vinegar,’ this refers to his chastisements, as it is said, `But he was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities’”
-Babylonian Talmud, (Sanhedrin 98), p.2 “Rabbi Yochanan said, The Messiah-what is his name?… And out Rabbis said. “the pale one”… is his name, as it is written “Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows-yet we considered him stricken by G-d, smitten by him and afflicted.”
-Rabbi Moses, ‘The Preacher’(11. Century) wrote in his commentary on Genesis (page 660):
“From the beginning God has made a covenant with the Messiah and told Him,’My righteous Messiah, those who are entrusted to you, their sins will bring you into a heavy yoke’..And He answered, ‘I gladly accept all these agonies in order that not one of Israel should be lost.’ Immediately, the Messiah accepted all agonies with love, as it is written: ‘He was oppressed and he was afflicted’
-the Talmud (Sanhedrin 98b), “If the Moshiach [King Messiah] comes from the dead he will be someone like Daniel.” Rashi there explains this to mean exactly what it says; Moshiach [King Messiah] can come from the dead.
-Messiah son of Joseph was slain, as it is written, “They shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son” * Zech xii 10 (Suk. 52a)
Above statements were interpretation from Bible especially Isaiah 53& Zechariah 22 .
And though often being denied quite a lot coz such a heavy nuance of Antichristian in Pharasaic Judaism but recent discovery shows that 3 days resurrection was a concept held by ancient Jews in Jesus time even prior to it, as being revealed in Gabrielle Revelation Stone ( http://www.bib-arch.org/news/dss-in-stone-news.asp )
Why Jesus disciples were sadden by Jesus death if they had known about resurrected Messiah ? of course they were because even till now Jewish people still in confusion by their misinterpretation of Messiah prophecy as TWO MESSIAHS, Messiah SON OF JOSEPH who would supposedly be killed in battle then resurrected and Messiah Son of David who will reign forevermore as King. In their naif understanding the disciple couldn’t accept such a horrible humiliating death that totally differ from Heroic honourable death in battlefield & above of all Jesus was being killed by His own people condemned as blasphemous heretic.
Those disciples didn’t aware that in order to FULFILL the prophecies which deal with “bearing our transgressions” He had to die in that way. If one truly study about this matter (Messianic prophecy with its view in Judaism) with no prejudice nor fault finding mindset toward Christianity , then the most possible logical conclusion that can be achieved is : ONLY IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST that these prophecies could ever be adjusted & suited with.
Coz in Judaism Messianic prophecy still is a confusing matter, and in Islam though you admit Jesus as Messiah but u miss the “bearing our transgression & being killed parts”
Frankly I’m glad u bring this theme up,coz many muslims still fall in delusion as if quranic version is the original fulfillment when apparently not, thank u for this thing can be straightened out in this forum
Peace In The Name of Jesus Our Messiah
For starters you quote rabbis without giving the actual references or sources, i am 100% confident that the quotes you have posted are 100% twisted and not honest. as for the Talmudic sources you quote, not a single one of them say the Messiah will die and rise in 3 days, stop reading what’s not there, I know your deluded, but keep your delusion to yourself or go see a literary doctor who can cure you of reading things that aren’t actually being written in the text.
Secondly, it is unanimously agreed amongst the Jews that the Messiah was not going to die and rise and 3 days, stop being stubborn and get with the facts, this fact is not even under dispute or debate but an accepted fact, it’s as accepted as the sun rising tomorrow.
Thirdly, as for the disciples not understanding, lol, how convenient, so the people who lived and walked with Jesus didn’t understand, but you, 2000 years later who live in a different society, with a different language, culture, and context manage to understand Jesus? Talk about delusion in the highest form.
Greetings in The Name of Jesus Our Messiah
Hello Sami
Sami commented : “For starters you quote rabbis without giving the actual references or sources, i am 100% confident that the quotes you have posted are 100% twisted and not honest”
My Response : AGAIN I’VE STATED BEFORE THAT THESE ALL EVIDENCES ARE NOTICEABLE DESPITE HEAVY TENDENCY OF ANTICHRISTIANISM THAT EMERGED POST- JESUS LIFE.
Concept of Messiah SON OF JOSEPH who would be KILLED & RESURRECTED is ANCIENT JEWISH CONCEPT(http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10729-messiah and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_13744.html)
In this judaism site (http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10729-messiah ) affirms the genuinity of my previous Rabbinical source ** Messiah son of Joseph was slain, as it is written, “They shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son” * Zech xii 10 (Suk. 52a)**
This Judaism site (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_13744.html) confirms my previous quotation of rabbinical commentary about “SUFFERING MESSIAH”, that WILL ATONED Israel (Sanhedrin 98 ) as quote **Third-century sources speak of a suffering Messiah, or a leprous Messiah; still later, his suffering atones for Israel (Sanh. 98b; PR 37:162b)**
This Judaism site also confirm the idea of RESURRECTED MESSIAH IN ANCIENT JEWS
as quote **SOME EXPECTED A RESURRECTED DAVID, and others a messiah named David. Hezekiah, king of Judah, was a potential messiah: Johanan b. Zakkai announced the “coming” of Hezekiah in what some take to be a messianically oriented deathbed declaration***. (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_13744.html)
In their confusion some jews even consider some pious rabbi as messiah and hoping his resurrection cause they basically believe in RESURRECTED MESSIAH as quote:
**So it states in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 98b), “If the Moshiach comes from the dead he will be someone like Daniel.” Rashi there explains this to mean exactly what it says; Moshiach can come from the dead. ,,,, After all this we see that there are three ways that the Moshiach may arrive:
1) He will come from the living.
2) He will arise from the dead (like the Rebbe said would happen with his father-in-law the previous Rebbe).
3) Or the Moshiach will only appear to be dead, but will actually be alive in his “true” physical body.
One thing for certain … we see that we really do not know what true reality is, and we desperately need the Moshiach to open our eyes. **** (http://www.ohrtmimim.org/Torah_Default.asp?id=781)
More Remarkable than these, when a Jewish scholar(Israel Knohl) in his attempt to DEBUNK the messianicship of Jesus has translated ancient Hymn of Dead Sea Scroll that describe the belief that being circled around PRIOR to Jesus day. Apparently belief of SUFFERING MESSIAH was not christian invented but genuinely Jewish. The remarkable part is Israel Knohl didn’t do this to supprt christianity BUT INSTEAD TO DEBUNK CHRISTIAN & claim this is a valid proof that Christianity was an invention of plagiarizing Jewish concept. (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1454790 , http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520234000)
Other “Knohl’s Study” was the Gabrielle Revelation Stone that shows about Messiah that would be resurrected in 3 DAYS ( http://www.bib-arch.org/news/dss-in-stone-news.asp )
If those are not enough, the Jewish Concept of Pre-Existence Messiah might deliver THE FINAL BLOW as quote *** The conception of the preexistent Messiah is met with in Pesiḳ. R. xxxiii., xxxvi.,…. In accordance with the Messiological section of Enoch the former of these two passages says: “At the beginning of the creation of the world was born the King Messiah, who mounted into God’s thoughts before the world was made”; and in the latter passage it is related that God contemplated the Messiah and his works before the creation of the world and concealed him under His throne; that Satan, having asked God who the Light was under His throne, was told it was the one who would bring him to shame in the future, and, being then allowed, at his request, to see the Messiah, he trembled and sank to the ground, crying out, “Truly this is the Messiah who will deliver me and all heathen kings over to hell.” God calls the Messiah “Ephraim, my righteous Messiah.”……(http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10729-messiah)
ALL OF MY DATA ABOVE WERE TAKEN FROM “ANTICHRISTIAN” SOURCE, so again despite their antichristian tendency in present Judaism there are overwhelming evidences that affirm:
1. Messiah will be called SON OF JOSEPH & SON OF DAVID
2. Messiah will suffer cause of our transgression
3. Messiah will be killed, die & resurrected
Again Thanks bro, for giving me the opportunity to educate you &your fellow Islamic brethren about Islamic deviancy from genuine concept of messiah & how truthful &undeniably it is the concept of messianism in Christianity
Regards, sincerely… RJ
Greetings in The Name of Jesus Our Messiah
Mr. Sami said: “Thirdly, as for the disciples not understanding, lol, how convenient, so the people who lived and walked with Jesus didn’t understand, but you, 2000 years later who live in a different society, with a different language, culture, and context manage to understand Jesus? Talk about delusion in the highest form.
My Response:
Speaking of “DELUSION” ,I see that you are blinded by your prejudice toward christianity.
Your easily refuted objection had been answered but you seemed still refuse to admit the truth. Let me remind u again on my explanation : “Why Jesus disciples were sadden by Jesus death if they had known about resurrected Messiah ? of course they were because even till now Jewish people still in confusion by their misinterpretation of Messiah prophecy as TWO MESSIAHS, Messiah SON OF JOSEPH who would supposedly be killed in battle then resurrected and Messiah Son of David who will reign forevermore as King. In their naif understanding the disciple couldn’t accept such a horrible humiliating death that totally differ from Heroic honourable death in battlefield & above of all Jesus was being killed by His own people condemned as blasphemous heretic.Those disciples didn’t aware that in order to FULFILL the prophecies which deal with “bearing our transgressions” He had to die in that way. ”
Plus they finally were being enlightened from their previous confusion :
(Luke 24:45-46)Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day
No need to wait 2000 yrs later, my friend… please don’t embarrass yourself by your unintelligent remarks… Peace
the only person embarassing himself is you regular John as you talk complete rubbish to try and save your flawed faith. whether you like it or not, facts are facts, the Jews did not/were not expecting a Messiah who would come and be killed and crucified by his enemies as a common criminal. This explains why the disciples were shocked and saddened by the supposed death of Jesus, you can dance and come up with all the silly interpretations and explanations you would like, but again it is a fact by scholarly consensus (not even debated) that the Jews were not expecting a dying Messiag, but a Messiah that come and be victorious over his enemies and usher in the kingdom of God.
As for your quote from Luke, there is no scripture in the OT that says the Messiah will die and rise in 3 days, so it is not written in scripture. That quote you bring from Luke is NOT historical, it’s just baseless theological drivel, academics don’t look at that as actual historical fact or real historical teachings by Jesus, Christians simply invented that theology up to make sense of their theology that Jesus supposedly died and rised in 3 days. And once again you don’t seem to know how to think properly, IF IT WAS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE, THEN WHY WAS NOBODY EXPECTING IT, AND WHY WERE THEY SURPRISED AND SADDENED BY IT? Your explanation oh that they eventually understood later after the spirit opened their minds is completely laughable and no real academic or thinking person takes such a response seriously, unless they are already a Christian believer who believes in such a theology.
In conclusion John, your entire response and entire method is filled with FAIL.
Hello Brother Zataari Peace In The Name of Jesus Christ
I like your statement , “whether you like it or not, facts are facts”
I’ve already given you statement from “antichristian source” concerning rabbinical opinions on Jewish Messiah, and can be concluded as follow:
1).Jewish sources tell us about Messiah Son of Joseph& Messiah Son of David, which both are perfectly match in the person of Jesus Christ.
2.)Jewish sources tell us Messiah Son of Joseph will suffer in order to bear our transgression , This Judaism site confirms my previous quotation of rabbinical commentary about “SUFFERING MESSIAH”, that WILL ATONED Israel (Sanhedrin 98 ) as quote **Third-century sources speak of a suffering Messiah, or a leprous Messiah; still later, his suffering atones for Israel (Sanh. 98b; PR 37:162b)** (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_13744.html)
3)Jewish sources tell us that Messiah Son of Joseph will be slain
Concept of Messiah SON OF JOSEPH who would be KILLED & RESURRECTED is ANCIENT JEWISH CONCEPT(http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10729-messiah and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_13744.html)
4.) Jewish sources tell us that Jews actually expecting Messiah Son of Joseph will be resurrected from the death **So it states in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 98b), “If the Moshiach comes from the dead he will be someone like Daniel.” Rashi there explains this to mean exactly what it says; Moshiach can come from the dead. ,,,, After all this we see that there are three ways that the Moshiach may arrive:
1) He will come from the living.
2) He will arise from the dead (like the Rebbe said would happen with his father-in-law the previous Rebbe).
3) Or the Moshiach will only appear to be dead, but will actually be alive in his “true” physical body.
One thing for certain … we see that we really do not know what true reality is, and we desperately need the Moshiach to open our eyes. **** (http://www.ohrtmimim.org/Torah_Default.asp?id=781)
5)Previous Discovery such as Dead Sea Scroll & Gabrielle Revelation Stone show that ancient Jews did believe Messiah will be resurrected in 3 days(source: http://www.bib-arch.org/news/dss-in-stone-news.asp and (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1454790 , http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520234000)
With this overwhelming “scholarly” evidences and your hollow remarks & ZERO evidence, I think quite astonishing u still unashamedly telling me that I have nothing to proof. Guess your intelligent has been victimized by your fanaticism bro… my deep condolence for you
This same fanaticism that make you repeatedly whining about Why s nobody was expecting it& surprised & saddened by it .
As I’ve said before from observing Jewish resources, it’s clear The Jews has been expecting Messiah Son of Joseph as military commander that will be die in heroic way in the battle that
would set the basis for the reigning of Messiah Son of David, actually these are wrong interpretation on duties that will be performed by one man =Jesus.
Jesus surely died in heroic way but not to set the Israelite free physically instead He died
for spiritual freedom for all mankind. This concept is still can’t be accepted by Jews till now. Jews at Jesus time (including disciples) assumed how not heroic Jesus death was especially since Jesus was killed by His own people being condemned as a heretic blasphemous person. The misunderstanding on Messiah Son of Joseph still continues till this day in rabbinic judaism.
Exclusively for disciples , although they had already been told that Son of Man will be killed,died and resurected (mark 10:33), but actually they’re still confuse whether Jesus is the real deal or not. Prior to resurrection Jesus deliberately not fully revealing Himself as Messiah cause Jesus were demanding faith first before understanding.
It’s easy for us who lived in present day and seeing the end of chapter and claiming that we would certainly believe if we’re being putted in the same place as disciples. But consider their situation who had been indoctrinized with misunderstanding not to mention that they also would be faced with accusation of heresy, it’s understandably difficult to really2 believe in what Jesus said prior to resurrection.
I can firmly say this explanation is reasonable and only a negative mindset filled with fanaticism would ever think otherwise
BTW thank you for not giving any evidence at all bro ..your immaturity quite laughable to amuse me…
Sorry for any inconvenient
Peace
The Islamic Messiah Isa doesn’t actually do anything for the Jews. He is their enemy. If he finds any at his return he will probably kill them to obey Mohammed. Only a Jew with stockholm syndrome could believe in the Islamic Messiah. “Come here Muslim there is a Jew hiding behind me so kill him” Bukhari 4, 52, 177.