10 replies »

  1. Great lecture. It is nice to see someone articulate the Orthodox Muslim position in a reasoned manner rather than just pussy footing around and trying to please everyone.

    Whether people agree or not, at least they will have the right information to make a choice rather than simple accusations and denials which pervade the discourse in the media.

  2. I watched the video and I don’t recall the speaker mentioning Sharia law as it applies to rape, blasphemy and apostasy. The Tunisian girl commited suicide because she was forced to marry her rapist or likely be punished herself as a fornicator or for slandering the man who raped her if he does not confess. That’s bad law. The punishment under Mosaic law would have been death for the rapist.

    Cutting of limbs is not a punishment for theft in the Mosaic law. No amount of material wealth can justify mutilation according to Mosaic law.

    In practice the Caliph is probably not too concerned about the lives and property of the infidel. The local tribal chiefs decide how the infidels will be treated and they are often a law to themselves. The Koran speaks of harming and humiliating infidels as a good work. It is part of Shariah to make infidels live in constant fear for their lives. So they can have no ease or security in life. Who are you kidding with your rosy promises?

    3.149: Believers! If you follow the unbelievers they will cause you to reject the faith and lead you to eternal damnation. But Allah is your protector and the best of helpers. We will strike terror into the hearts of the unbelievers because they worship others besides Allah, which he gave them no permission to do. Their home will be the fire, a terrible resting place for the evil-doers. ( note evil doers = unbelievers ).

    Striking terror in to the hearts of the unbelievers is a permanent obligation of Sharia law, not just in war.

    I599 Your slaughter of the unbelievers went well and you were about to wipe the unbelievers off the face of the earth, thanks to Allah.

    The same people who were slaughtering the unbelievers are the same people who are supposed to be protecting the unbelievers if they pay the jizya? First they want to kill and plunder and then they protect the same people. Who”s buying this baloney?

  3. Paul said “Erasmus are you a Christian?”

    Yes I am.

    Other subjects not addressed:

    Abortion. What is Sharia law on abortion?

    Capital or means of production. Is Sharia a capitalist or socialist economic system? At present the West generates wealth through free enterprise where capital or the means of production is allowed to remain as the property of the entrepeneur. Is this the same under Sharia law?

    Do all women have the right to choose for themselves what they want to wear, to move around freely without a male guardian in the public sphere, to educate themselves, to pursue a career under Sharia law? Or does the head of the family decide these things according to Sharia law?

    • Erasmus, most of these questions were discussed at last nights debate at SOAS. The film of the event will be out in a week or two.

      Islamic teachings on abortion

      Islam rarely permits abortion after 120 days. Muslims regard abortion as wrong and haram (forbidden), but many accept that it may be permitted in certain cases.

      All schools of Muslim law accept that abortion is permitted if continuing the pregnancy would put the mother’s life in real danger. This is the only reason accepted for abortion after 120 days of the pregnancy.

      Different schools of Muslim law hold different views on whether any other reasons for abortion are permitted, and at what stage of pregnancy if so.

      Some schools of Muslim law permit abortion in the first 16 weeks of pregnancy, while others only permit it in the first 7 weeks.

      However, even those scholars who would permit early abortion in certain cases still regard abortion as wrong, but do not regard it as a punishable wrong. The more advanced the pregnancy, the greater the wrong.

      The Qur’an does not explicitly refer to abortion but offers guidance on related matters. Scholars accept that this guidance can properly be applied to abortion.

      *

      Regarding your question about Islam and capitalism, here is a good place to start: The Global Financial Crisis: The self-destruction of global capitalism and an introduction to the alternative Islamic economic model

      *

      You asked: ‘Do all women have the right to choose for themselves what they want to wear, to move around freely without a male guardian in the public sphere, to educate themselves, to pursue a career under Sharia law? Or does the head of the family decide these things according to Sharia law?’

      A key virtue in Islam (for men and women) is modesty. I refer you to Section 2: Clothing and Adornment, in The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam by Yusuf Al-Qaradawi.

      *

    • Capital or means of production. Is Sharia a capitalist or socialist economic system?

      From my understanding, if you compare between both system, Sharia is between it.
      Capital similarities: We encourage people to do business, encourage a wealthy people to invest their money, profit sharing concept, etc. Rejecting usury (interest), excessive debt, gambling, buying money, etc.

      Socialist Economy – Encouraging wealthy to invest on poor, rich have a responsibility to poor, zakat, but we don’t encourage a ruler to own a business.

      Of course I not going to describe in details, do refer to paper by Dr Asad Zaman : Islamic Economics: A Survey of the Literature and other book.
      http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/11024/1/MPRA_paper_11024.pdf

  4. I admit the talk was limited to the more “gruesome aspects” of Shariah. So some of my questons in my last comment are outside the scope of the original question.

  5. Erasmus, I have a question or two for you:

    do you condemn those passages in the Bible that portray God as ordering the slaughter of innocent women and children?

    1 Samuel 15 (Saul Defeats the Amalekites but Spares Their King)

    ‘Samuel said to Saul, ‘The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts, “I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” ’

    *

    Do you condemn these teachings in the Bible?

    Virgins are taken as booty by Moses and his men in Numbers 31:1-54.

    Women are seen as spoils of war and can be taken as property in Deuteronomy 20:13-14.

    In Deuteronomy 21:11-14 clearly allows men to have sex with their captives.

    If a man marries a woman and doesn’t like his wife anymore, he can claim that she wasn’t a virgin. If her father taken produce proof of her virginity which is bloody sheets then the woman is to stoned in front of her fathers doorstep in Deuteronomy 22:13-21.

    If a woman is raped in a city and can’t scream loud enough then she is to be put to death in Deuteronomy 22:23-24. This makes it difficult for the rape victim to tell the authorities about the crime, since she is risking her own life in doing so.

    In Deuteronomy 22:22-29 when a man rapes a woman he must pay her father 50 Shekels in silver and marry her. What kind of person would permit a rape victim to marry her rapist?

    A woman is seen as the property of a man as Deuteronomy 27:20 states that “Cursed be he that lieth with his father’s wife, because he uncovereth his father’s skirt.” Implying that the husband owns his wife.

    And that’s just the Old Testament. Who’s buying this baloney?

    In the New Testament we read:

    Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
    (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

    *

    A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

    *

    Paul thought that only men are made in the image of God:

    ‘A man ought not to cover his head since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.’ (1 Corinthians 11:7-9).

    ‘Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.’ (1 Corinthians 11:3)

    *

    so Erasmus, Who’s buying this baloney?

    and to cap it all here’s how the Bible ends: Jesus Loves His Enemies…and Then Kills Them All

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