Debates

Debate: Christianity or Islam: Which adheres to the message of the Jewish Prophets?

The debate video is now uploaded of my debate with the Christian reverend and experienced anti-Islam debater, Samuel Green, on the topic ‘The Message of the Prophets’ (whether Christianity or Islam continues the consistent message of the Jewish Prophets).

I haven’t done a Christianity debate in three years, and enjoyed revisiting the topic. I especially revisited the Christian concept of the Trinity and demonstrated how it actually represents three gods and not one. A great discussion, with many funny moments – well worth the watch.

Categories: Debates, MDI UK, Videos

21 replies »

  1. JEWS AND INTELLIGENCE

    1) Nobel Prizes have been awarded to over 800 individuals,of whom at least 20% were Jews, although Jews comprise less than 0.2% of the world’s population.

    Source: Shalev, Baruch (2005). 100 Years of Nobel Prizes. p. 57

    2) There are many scientific papers presented in many peer reviewed journals how the genetic make up of Jews make them a intelligent group.

    3) Ashkenazi Jews comprise 2.2% of the USA population, but they represent 30% of faculty at elite colleges, 21% of Ivy League students, 25% of the Turing Award winners, 23% of the wealthiest Americans, and 38% of the Oscar-winning film directors.

    4) The proportion of Jews with IQ’s of 140 or more is estimated to be about six times the proportion of any other ethnic group.

    5) From 1870 until 1950, Jewish leadership in such fields as literature, music, visual arts, biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, and philosophy equaled somewhere from four to fourteen times the Jewish proportion of the population in Europe and North America.

    It is surprising that this very same community is reading the Torah for 3500 yr now including 1500 yr before Christ but they still didn’t understand that their God is actually a Trinity .

    The Jews from the very beginning used to say Yahweh is 1, the Trinity was unknown to them .Then came Christianity and started telling the Jews that Yahweh is a trinity or a 3 in one !

    Stupid Jews they are as such the most intelligent people but cant understand a simple thing that 3 actually is 1 .

  2. I have not yet heard the debate but immediately one obvious reason why Islam can’t in any way adhere to the message of the Jewish prophets,including Jesus is this my friends:the Quran says a married man,a Muslim,can sleep with another woman who’s not his wife,but who is his slave.And it is allowed,no sin at all.
    In all honesty guys,no Jewish prophet would accept it,they would all call it the sin of adultery by the married Muslim man and the sin of fornication by the unmarried slave woman,

    • No where in the Glorious Quran that says a man can sleep with another woman who’s not his wife but his slave and that there is no sin at all.

      AQ 04:25. And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing young women from among those whom your right hands possess, and Allah has full knowledge about your faith, you are one from another. WED them with the permission of their own folk (guardians) and give them their due in a good manner; they should be chaste, NOT FORNICATORS, NOR PROMISCUOUS. And after they have been taken in wedlock, if they commit Fahishah, their punishment is half that for free (unmarried) women. This is for him among you who is afraid of being harmed in his religion or in his body; but it is better for you that you practice self-restraint, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    • hey pagan triplet woshipping scoundrel, when moses told the jews to take the 30,ooo virgin girls and one “holy” warrior decided to do nitty gritty with them and place them in CONCUBINE CATEGORY, WOULD N’t that be adultery ?

      • lol Awesome reply, i was about to leave the same reply. These pathetic christo-pagans hardly have read their own scripture, where prophets have intercourse with their own daughters, where prophets(Moses) murder men women and babies and keep little girls for themselves as slaves, yes to sleep with,where Jesus impregnantes a preteen Mary and lays in her belly for 9 months, coming through–you know where. Seriously..people are waking up to your pitiful weak arguements. You cannot make the “Mohammad slept with a 9 year old girl, he took war captives, he blah blah blah”, your own scriptures refute you.

  3. The Muslim speaker doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There is plenty of evidence of the trinity in the old testament. And the ot talks about god coming to earth

    Isaiah 9:6 NKJV
    For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    God can be all places at all times. Why is it hard for Muslims to grasp this. God can be in heaven. At the same time be a be born a man like he chose too. And gods spirit goes inside the born again Christian and joins with our spirit. Three chatacteristics. Father, son and the holy spirit. Another ot proof…

    Isaiah 48:16 NKJV
    “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

    Lord God…FATHER…and his spirit…HOLY SPIRIT. Have sent me…..the son of god. God in the flesh.

    God giving one of his names in the ot.
    Exodus 3:14 NKJV

    And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

    Jesus in the NT
    John 8:58 NKJV
    Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

    Jesus JUST CLAIMED TO BE GOD.

    Book of Daniel OT
    Daniel 7:13-14 NKJV

    “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

    God in heaven the father gives his earthly vessel the son dominion and glory. And we will serve him. It is god in the flesh Jesus . If you deny that god came in the flesh Muslims Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons and whoever else. The Word of God talks about you. II John 1:7 NKJV

    For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. I

    If you do not confess God as coming in the flesh you are an antichrist. Therfore you are blaspheming god everytime you say god does not have a son. Begotten doesn’t mean he had sex. It means Jesus is directly from the God himself, like a cell dividing in two. It shows a direct connection.

    • Look whos talking………the evidence you show are contradictory. Consider these:

      Deau 06:04 Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is ONE Lord.

      Deau 06:13 Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and HIM ONLY shalt thou serve; and thou shalt cleave to HIM, and by HIS name thou shalt swear.
      14 Go ye not after other gods of the gods of the nations round about you;
      15 for the Lord thy God in the midst of thee [is] a JEALOUS GOD, lest the Lord thy God be very angry with thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

      The LORD GOD is ONE and A JEALOUS ONE. How can the christians invoke someone else with GOD? How can there be two? THE CHRISTIANS ARE MAKING THE LORD GOD JEALOUS, BETTER WATCH OUT!

      Easiah 45:21 If they will declare, let them draw nigh, that they may know together, who has caused these things to be heard from the BEGINING: then was it told you? I am God, and there is NOT ANOTHER BESIDE ME; a just [God] and a Saviour; there is NONE but ME.

      LORD GOD says there is NONE but HIM. Nothing is said that he has an assistant!

      Again

      Easiah 46:9 and remember the former things [that were] of old: for I am God, and here is NONE other beside ME,

      Easiah 44:7 WHO IS LIKE ME? Let him stand, and call, and declare, and prepare for me from the time that I made man for ever; and let them tell you the things that are coming before they arrive. 8 Hide not yourselves, nor go astray: have ye not heard from the beginning, and [have not] I told you? ye are witnesses if there is a GOD beside ME.

      The LORD GOD says nothing is like HIM. How can Jesus be god? Is there any witnesses??? BY CLAIMING JESUS AS GOD IS A BLASPHEMY!

      Easiah 41: 4 Who has wrought and done these things? he has called it who called it from the generations of old; I, God, the FIRST and to [all] futurity, I AM.

      From the beginning to the end, there is only ONE GOD!

      42: 8 I am the Lord God: that is my name: I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY TO ANOTHER, nor my praises to graven images.

      The LORD GOD says that HIS name is GOD AND NOT JESUS AND HE WILL NOT SHARE HIS GLORY WITH OTHERS EVEN TO HIS SON, IF HE HAS ONE!

      ESA [JESUS] A PROPHET

      Deaut 18:17 And the Lord said to me, They [Israelits] have spoken rightly all that they have said to thee. 18 I will raise up to them a PROPHET of their BRETHEN, like thee [Moses]; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them [Israelite] as I shall command him.

      These verses is refering to Jesus.

      1. “like thee” – like Moses. Moses was human and as such Jesus was also human.

      2. “Prophet” – Moses was a Prophet and since Jesus was like Moses than he was also a Prophet. The Glorious Quran confirms – 19:30

      3. “Brethen” – meaning family members. Moses was an Israelites and descended from Amran. Jesus was also an Israelites descended from the sister of Aaron – The family of Amran- Midrash Rabbah Chapter 2. The Glorious Quran confirms – 03:33 & 19:28.

      4. The next on line to received the revelation after Prophet Moses was Jesus.

      5- On numerous occasions Jesus speaks of himself as a prophet:

      “A prophet is not without honour except in his home town and his own house” (Mathew 13:57) (Mark 6:4) and (Luke 4:24)

      We also read:

      “I must journey today, tomorrow and the day following for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem” (Luke 13:33)

      “This is the Prophet Jesus” (Mathew 21:11)

      6- Jesus also spoke of himself as the messenger of God:

      “Whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. Whoever welcomes God’s messenger because he is God’s messenger will share in his reward.” (Mathew 10:40)

      “No messenger is greater than the one who sent him” (John 13:16)

      The distinction in this verse is made very clear by Jesus between himself and the One who sent him. This is again made clear in the following verse:

      “And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (John 17:3)

      These verses clearly speak of two separate beings. To claim that Jesus and God are one reduces these verses to mere nonsense!

      7- In various other verses Jesus is referred to as the servant of God:

      “Here is my servant whom I have chosen” (Mathew 12:18)

      “To you first, God having raised up His servant Jesus, sent him to bless you” (The Acts 3:26).

      These two verses, which are a fulfilment of Isaiah 42:1-4, speak of Jesus as the servant of God and not as a God.

      The Church will usually argue that the terms ‘prophet’ or ‘servant’ are symbolic and are not to be taken literally. That is fine as long as this principle is applied to other equally important issues. Why does it have to be that when it comes to the title of ‘son of God’ the Church insists on taking it literally?!!

      All these verses that speak of Jesus as a prophet of God, a messenger of God and indeed the servant of God if anything affirm the fact that Jesus was a man who worshipped God like any other mortal.

      8- Jesus did not think of himself as being perfect, let alone divine. He knew in his heart that only God is perfect:

      “Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is God.” (Mark 10:18)

      These are hardly the words of someone who thought of himself as God come down to earth in the form of a man! In actual fact, in these words Jesus makes a very clear distinction between God and himself.

      9- In all the Bible there is not one verse where Jesus says that he is God come down to earth, that he is divine or that he should be worshipped. On the contrary he taught the people to worship God in Heaven:

      “You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve” (Luke 4:8)

      Was Jesus God come down to earth and did not know it himself?

      The divinity of Jesus is never taught by Jesus and has no origin in the Bible, but was adopted some time after the death of Jesus.

      In addition to the previous evidence from the New Testament that refute the divinity of Jesus, it can also be demonstrated that the Jesus’ divinity is inconsistent with the prophecies contained in the Old Testament about the coming of the Messiah.

      Jesus was an Israelites who lived and worshipped God according to the law of Moses. Jesus himself said:

      “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” (Mathew 5:17-18)

      With the words “to fulfil” Jesus was referring to the prophecies in the Jewish Scripture. These prophecies speak about the coming of the Messiah, the King of Jews. We do not find one prophecy that speaks of the coming of God in the form of a man or of a divine son of God! All the prophecies spoke of the coming of the King of Jews not of God.

  4. Another specific problem with using Abraham as a justification for sleeping with a slave woman to who he was not married(as is allowed in the Quran) is the fact that the woman to who he was married,that is to say Sara,was his half-sister.That shows that in one or both instances he was merely following a custom of his day,a human tradition,not a divine order.

    • Prophet Abraham was a man of GOD. His ways is the way of GOD. He would not follow his own tradition. That is mere nonsence. He had ONLY ONE WIFE and that was Sarah. She was not his sister at ALL. They never been to Egypt.

      All you say are jewish lies, full of conjectures, no truth at all!

  5. Yes i agree God is One, and He is one in purpose with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Lets keep this simple. When God created the heavens and earth, the Hebrew word ‘elohim’ is used for plurality. For example in Chapter one of Genesis we Have God and the Holy Spirit working in unity, yet they are still One, hence verse two:

    Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    So Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One in unity and it purpose. 1x1x1=1 God, not three gods.

    • Of course it could be explained according to chapter five of 1John: 7 “For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST…” All three are bearing the same record, hence 1+1+1=1 Now verse seven of 1John continues… and these THREE are ONE, hence 1x1x1=1

  6. pretty often i have head christian apologetics explaining trinity as 1*1.*1=1.

    but however 1*1*1…………..and so on a million times …………will stil be equal to one ………….in that case God will have millions of forms which constitute him………….

    PROVING THE IDEA OF PAGANISM…………NOT OF MONOTHEISM!!!!!!!!!!!!

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