MDI UK

Jesus the God-man?

Trinitarian theology argues that Jesus is the God-man, and what this means is that Jesus was fully man, as well as being fully God at the same time.

According to Trinitarians, Jesus being the God-man explains a lot of things, for example when Jesus ate, slept, and was given birth to, this was part of the human side of Jesus, the human nature of Jesus. So as man, a full man, Jesus would experience things as all humans do, so that’s why he’d even pray, and not know everything, because he was a real human being.

So while Jesus had this human nature, he still also had the fully divine nature, and so he was still God.

Now if one carefully analyses this theology, one will find several problems and contradictions within it, but before we get to that we must address something else, we must go right to the heart of the issue. Trinitarians assert that Jesus was the God-man, fully God and fully man, yet the question is this, when and where did Jesus assert such a thing? When did Jesus ever say that he is fully God, and fully man, that he possesses two such natures?

The answer is simple, such a verse does not exist, and no major historical scholar in the field of the historical Jesus believes that Jesus uttered such a statement, there is no evidence for it. Jesus never said he was fully God and fully man, the church introduced this theology, and it’s obvious to see why. The church believes that such a theology will get rid of a lot of problems, because indeed how could Jesus be God if he didn’t know the last hour, surely God is all-knowing is he not?

So what better way to explain this problem off by simply saying “oh yes this was the man nature of Jesus”, not the divine nature. So whenever Jesus displays actions that cannot make him God, they simply attribute it to the man nature

But now to the actual theology itself, and the problems and contradictions it poses when one well and truly thinks about it.

How can one be fully divine, and fully human at the same time? This is what you call a paradox, a contradiction, and an impossibility. Why you might ask? Well as we all know, being divine means you’re all knowing, all-powerful and so forth. But being human, means you’re none of those things. So how can one be all knowing, while ignorant at the same time?

The equivalent of this is calling someone a married bachelor. These are two completely different things, one cannot be all knowing, and be ignorant at the same time, that’s just a contradiction.

Similarly, being fully divine means you’re eternal, while being human, means you’re not eternal. So how can one be eternal, having always existed, yet at the same time is not eternal and came into existence during a point in time?! It makes no sense, as we said, it’s a paradox, and it’s a contradiction.

It’s very simple, God is God, and man is man. If God becomes man, he’s no longer God now is he, he’s become a man. For instance, man is man, and animal is animal, if a man becomes a duck, he’s no longer a man but a duck. Similarly, if God became a man, then he was no longer God, he was man, there’s no such thing as the God-man unless God found himself a human wife and conceived a child with that human lady, and so the son would have the natures of God and man.

Trinitarians say Jesus “took on the human nature”, that doesn’t make the situation any better, because how can the all mighty and powerful God, the infinite and the eternal, take on the finite and limited? How can the perfect take on imperfection? If God took on imperfection, then he was no longer fully perfect, yet that’s impossible for God because he is always perfect. If God took on ignorance, then he was no longer all knowing, and that’s an impossibility for God because God is perfect in wisdom and knowledge. It is impossible for him to become imperfect in that attribute, let alone any attribute. For if God became imperfect in anything, then he could not be God as God is perfect and it is impossible for him to imperfect for to be imperfect would cease making him God!

So did the all-perfect God take on imperfection? Is that what we’re expected to believe when we’re told God took on the human nature? So God took on the imperfection upon himself while being fully perfect at the same time?

Another problem with this whole God-man issue is the reasoning behind it, Trinitarians allege that God became like us, so he could understand us. But does not God already understand us? He made us, so surely he should understand us better than anybody else since he created us. Not only did he create us, he created the feelings we feel. So surely if anybody knows anything about understanding us and what we go through, it should be God as he created it all.

Now to also say that God became like one of us to understand us presupposes that he did not understand us in the first place which is why he became one of us, so he could better understand us and experience what we go through. If this is the case, this means that God is ignorant and not all knowing, for he should’ve already known about us instead of having to become like one of us to understand us.

Put it this way, if you travel to China to learn about the Chinese culture and the Chinese way of life, this means you weren’t aware of the Chinese way of life and culture, which is why you went to China so you could experience it. So similarly, when God became man to understand and experience what we go through, it means that he did not know this in the first place, which is why he took on such a act.

Now if Trinitarians respond back by saying well “No, God didn’t become a man because he didn’t understand us and so forth, no, God already understood us and knew what we experienced”. If a Trinitarian says this, then they refute themselves and defeat the whole purpose of their own statements when they say God became a man to understand us. Why would God become a man to understand us if he already knew everything? It makes it all meaningless.

Trinitarians try to show how beautiful it is, they try to emotionally suck you in, saying, “Look how great God is, that he became like us to understand and experience what we go through, isn’t that wonderful”. No, not really, what’s so wonderful about him becoming like us, understanding us, and experiencing what we go through if he already knew this in the first place?

What would be wonderful about such a thing is if the person doing it was doing it because they well and truly wanted to understand how the people felt, to understand their experiences and so on, but if you already had full knowledge of it, if you created it, then there’s no point to it.

So in conclusion, the theology of the God-man is filled with contradictions within itself, and secondly, Jesus himself never taught that he was the God-man.

Addendum

So Jesus never declared himself to be the God-man, but what did he declare himself to be then?

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:1-3)

 

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. (John 8:40)

Categories: MDI UK

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14 replies »

  1. if you christians don’t worship a god of confusion and you believe god BECAME a man to know THROUGH experience what it is to be a man, then when jesus got KNOCKED to his head did he , as a god, experience CONFUSION?

    was there DILUTION between the human and divine nature when jesus got a knock to his head? it is his MIND which got AFFECTED , right?

    so the flesh gets a knock and the MIND gets AFFECTED, did god’s mind EXPERIENCE confusion?

    the flesh is NOT god, right? the mind is, right?

    i quote:

    Symptoms of kidney failure are due to the build-up of waste products in the body that may cause weakness,shortness of breath, lethargy, and confusion. Inability to remove potassium from the bloodstream may lead to abnormal heart rhythms and sudden death. Initially, there may be no symptoms of kidney failure.

    if jesus had a KIDNEY failure , then that would mean he had no power or control over a failing kidney. if the kidney is NOT part of god , then god does not know THROUGH experience SYMPTOMS of kidney failure.

    you christians say that THE person which EXPRESSES thoughts was god.

    now you need to AGREE with me and say that god EXPERIENCED CONFUSION when he got STRUCK to his head. the divine part which EXPRESSES it thoughts got CONFUSED.

    “father in to your…” is clearly contradicted by ” … why have you forsaken me”

  2. you are right it doesn’t say jesus is man and god in one but there are different references that show jesus is divine and others that show jesus is a man like with a human body which to explain this we see jesus as being man but also god and I don’t know any Trinitarian that say god became man to know us but triantiarians that say he became man so that he can be with us and have a relationship with him in a way we can understand and so that he fulfil who the messiah is and yes god who is perfect did take imperfection whats wrong with that god can do anything and jesus was god but most of the time his human nature over powered his godly nature it was only after his resurrection they seem to change

    • man WT… are you talking about ?

      quote:
      god but most of the time his human nature over powered his godly nature it was only after his resurrection they seem to change

      CREATED human NATURE overpowered godly nature?
      so when jesus was CRYING like a baby , his crying sounds HAD enough power to prevent the godly nature (nature which knows ALL languages ) SPEAK words?

    • “Trinitarian that say god became man to know us but triantiarians that say he became man so that he can be with us and have a relationship with him in a way we can understand and so that he fulfil who the messiah is and yes god who is perfect did take imperfection whats wrong with that god can do anything and jesus was god but most of the time his human ”

      imagine you are there and jesus is bleeding to death and then hung on a cross . pretend for the moment you are his mother. what relationship as a mother are you having with jesus? as a mother to her son relationship or as a mother having a relationship with an ALMIGHTY being. you tell me.

  3. God seeed to have taken imperfection to such an extent that he has even failed to leave his unequivocal date of birth for us to celebrate! Too bad (I seek God’s forgiveness)

  4. Answering Judaism,

    No you haven’t really answered their points.

    God-man is a hybrid, neither God nor man!
    And God-man is a walking contradiction that couldn’t have really existed according to law of non -contradiction!

    And the fact that the Bible never once even implies let alone calls Jesus God-man is a devastating refutation!

    • there are only three good Muslim websites which attempt to respond to Christian websites in good way that is islamic awareness,call to monotheism and let me turn the tables all others are waste of time they attempt to response but when you actually read it they are not really refutation

    • Mujahid, You assume it’s a contradiction rather than prove it is such.

      God-Man is one who is fully Human AND fully God, not a mixture.

      This is God you are dealing with who exists outside time and space. What is to stop God himself taking on a human nature and still retaining his deity?

      Your last point if you want me to be honest is an argument from silence.

  5. It is quite obvious to him who knows God properly that God’s nature and attributes (God’s Being) are antithetical to man’s nature and attributes (man’s being). God is limitless while man is limited, God knows everything (omniscient) while man is ignorant of most things, God is all-powerful (omnipotent) while man is powerless over most things, God is immortal (never to taste death) while man is mortal, God is etenal while man is ephemeral, God is uncreated while man is created etc etc.

    These mutually exclusive natures and qualities cannot exist in a single self-same person, single entity, according to the law of contradiction. Even according to Christianity, Jesus is a single person. So, self-same single person could not know and be ignorant of what he supposedly knew at the same time, could not be powerful and powerless at the same time, could not be eternal and ephemeral at the same time, could not be uncreated and created at the same time.

    Thus it is obvious that as uncreated-creature could not exist, married bachelor could not exist, so also God-man could not exist for the same fact of the law of contradiction!

    You said: “God-Man is one who is fully Human AND fully God, not a mixture.”

    If he is fully man then he has antithetical nature and attributes to fully God. Christianity teaches that Jesus is a single person. So, a single self-same person cannot be fully man and antithetically fully God at the same time. If a fully man became fully duck at the same time, then he ceases to be only fully God and ceases to be only fully duck! He is now man-duck or duck-man, and neither only man nor only duck. Thus God-man is neither God nor man but a hybrid!

    You said: “This is God you are dealing with who exists outside time and space. What is to stop God himself taking on a human nature and still retaining his deity?”

    God is immutable, unchanging (Malachi 3: 6, Hebrews 1: 12 etc), so if God takes on a created human nature antithetical to His uncreated divine nature and added it to his single being then he experience real change and thus ceases to be God. Secondly, god that NEEDS to take antithetical nature and attributes to accomplish his supposed purpose could not be the true God who is free of all needs and is all-powerful to accomplish His purposes without needing to take on any antithetical nature and attributes. Thirdly, it is a fallacy to assume that God can do all things! Yes, God is all-powerful but he does not do things antithetical to his nature and attributes. For example, God cannot lie, God cannot create another eternal God etc!

    You said: “Your last point if you want me to be honest is an argument from silence.”

    I said that the doctrine that Jesus is God-man is not explicitly taught in the Bible. Only highly subjective fallible human interpretation explicitly teaches it! This is a fact and not argument from silence!

  6. Correction:

    This sentence:

    “If a fully man became fully duck at the same time, then he ceases to be only fully God and ceases to be only fully duck!”

    Should be:

    “If a fully man became fully duck at the same time, then he ceases to be only fully man and ceases to be only fully duck!”

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