Here we go again! Another lie created against Islam in an attempt to demonize and spread mistrust of Muslims. Be aware this is the same tactic used against Jews in Nazi Germany. Propaganda was created stating Jews had a teaching that they too could lie to gentiles when ever they pleased and we all know what that lead to. And so here now in the 21st century the bigots are using the same claims and tactics but the target is now Muslims. I read the article of Raymond Ibrahim posted on Frontpagemag.com and I just had to respond.
Have any of you checked the sources cited in his article?Most of the anti- islamic bigots would answer no. Heres what the very sources he cited said about Tawriya which they said means deliberate ambiguity rather than creative lying.
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said this should not be used unjustly. If you use the pun of injustice it’s not permissible. The author of the article seems to be aware that this refuted his claim so he add in parenthesis ((“injustice” as defined by Sharia, of course, not Western standards).Says who? None of the sources he cited said as only defined by sharia. A commonly known wrong is a commonly known wrong just the same in Islam( stealing, cheating, murder etc is wrong and accepted as such in Islam).
Sheikh Al-Munajjid another source cited by the article’s author said Excessive use of puns leads to lying. So the claim that this can be used when ever and where ever is a lie in it self . Al Munajjid said this is used for embarrassing circumstances. Yet the author would have us believe Muslims can use this to lie in business transactions, and to take peoples property and other commonly accepted wrong activities.
Another source cited by the article’s author which he ignores is :
Al-Nawawi who said The Deliberate ambiguity is permissible if the need arises or a legitimate interest, and should not be a great deal so to be a habit, nor to use it to gain the right to void or escape payment. If it is a means of taking something wrongfully or depriving someone of their rights, then it is haraam( NOT ALLOWED) in that case. This is the guideline in this matter. Emphasis on** should not be a great deal so to be a habit, nor to use it to gain the right to void or escape payment .Nor used to take something wrongfully or deprive someone of their rights.**
Mr. Ibraham told us Muhammad is recorded saying “Allah has commanded me to equivocate among the people inasmuch as he has commanded me to establish [religious] obligations”; and “I have been sent with obfuscation”; and “whoever lives his life in dissimulation dies a martyr” (Sami Mukaram, Al Taqiyya Fi Al Islam, London: Mu’assisat al-Turath al-Druzi, 2004, p. 30).
However the source he cites clearly is Al Taqiyya Fi Al Islam, London: Mu’assisat al-Turath al-Druzi, 2004, p. 30). Did you catch it? The source is about AL TAQIYYA not about TAWRIYA. And taqiyah deals with a situation only when a Muslims life is in immediate danger and they utter words of disbelief because they are threatened with being killed or tortured. Thus this citation does not support any proof for “creative lying”.
Another hadith was cited which Ibrahim says ,in a canonical hadith, Muhammad said: “If any of you ever pass gas or soil yourselves during prayers [breaking wudu], hold your nose and leave” (Sunan Abu Dawud): ” Holding one’s nose and leaving implies smelling something offensive—which is true—though people will think it was someone else who committed the offense.”
Those familiar with this hadith can quickly see that Ibrahim has added his own conclusion about this hadith not endorsed by the islamic position. No where is it taught that this hadith teaches for one to pass gas and leave thereby allowing some one else to take the blame for passing gas and the offensive smell . This is a clear example of how these haters just make up blatant lies to taint Islamic teachings and draw false conclusions based on their over zealous bias against Islam.
Lastly its important to note that Some scholars were of the view that it is haraam to resort to deliberate ambiguity if there is no reason or need to do so. This was the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him). See al-Ikhtiyaaraat, p. 563.
So as we see Raymond totally failed to mention those parts that clearly inform us that “this should not be used unjustly. If you use the pun of injustice it’s not permissible” . Or ” should not be a great deal so to be a habit, nor to use it to gain the right to void or escape payment”.”Nor used to take something wrongfully or deprive someone of their rights” or that” Excessive use of puns leads to lying” . Thus it’s not something that Islam pushes the believers to enact as the haters would have you believe.
Categories: Responses to anti-Islamic Polemics
The Muslim Debate Initiative 
I tried to see if the following narration exists in Arabic: “whoever lives his life in dissimulation dies a martyr” but I couldn’t find it.
Does anyone have the Arabic text of it (if it even exists)? Jazakallah.
If I provide an analysis of a verse or two. Examples
God is greater than I.
Without God I can do nothing.
A christian will reply in the following ways.
State I have no understanding of the bible and refuse to debate
Copy and paste pages of material unrelated to what I have stated in an attempt to overwhelm me.
Produce a different verse as proof against me that has a totally different meaning to what I stated which only proves the bible has contradictions in it.
I can count over the years on one hand the number of times a person actually provides their understanding of the verses I provided.
When a person attacks the Quran and I provide a reply they generally state Tawriya and ignore everything I stated.
Satan works hard to manipulate people from the truth. Luckily truth will win out in the end inshallah.
Who cares?
If you don’t care, why are you posting dumb -ass?
broshadid,
I have read both of Ibrahim’s and your claim, and frankly you lose. Just remember, that according to most Islamic scholars, the latter Qu’ranic verses supersede the earlier moderate texts. Now look around the ME and what most Muslim religious scholars claim. Frankly, all one needs to do is look and listen to your brethren to know who SPEAKS TRUTH AND WHO LIES.
You are well versed in deception, and similar to my high school students, I do not believe you because of your excuses and lousy spelling and grammar.
Hey aspacia, I have not lost, Ibrahim was exposed just face it and stop being a cheerleader. And Just remember No where does Allah say , nor does Muhammad say that latter Quranic verses supercede the earlier moderate text. Now hush up and go sit in the corner. Its the evidence that speaks the truth, not claims of what most scholars allegedly claim. The evidence is what lets us know who SPEAKS TRUTH AND WHO LIES.
You bigot devils are the only ones well versed in deception. And what a silliy logical fallacy to claim that lousy spelling and grammar means an argument is false. LOL what an idiot!
Hey Broshadid……
Guess what? You did lose.
How can you state: “And just remember No where does Allah say, nor does Muhammad say that latter Quranic verses supercede the earlier moderate text”? Have you never heard of abrogation? But, of course you have. You surely know of this concept, because it IS covered in the Quran. The following chapters and verses all deal with and allow for abrogation: 2:106, 16:101, 13:39, 17:86.
Based on these verses, Muhammad created the idea of abrogation in order to explain the way the Quran changes to fit into Muhammads personal beliefs and goals.
In addition to Tawriya, non-Islamists are becoming aware of these concepts: Taqiyya, Kitman, Muruna, Taysir, Darura, abrogation, and Tabarra.
How can Muslims speak about evidence when everything you say is twisted and deceptive?
And the fact that you would base your argument against me based on 1 or 2 typos and a few left out apostrophes rather than refuting the issue at hand lets me know you guys have no real rebuttal.
“…latter Qu’ranic verses supersede the earlier moderate texts.”
If your talking about abrogation, then this is a long topic, and you and I are in no position to based Islamic rulings, based on the allegation that: “according to most Islamic scholars, the latter Qu’ranic verses supersede the earlier moderate texts”.
Also, cite your references (in Arabic) that the majority agree (regarding lying) with what you think they agree with.
“I do not believe you because of your excuses and lousy spelling and grammar.”
Your comitting the Ad Hominem fallacy, because whether he makes “excuses” and has bad spelling/grammar or not isn’t evidence that his claims are to be dismissed.
At times one wonders what do people like shamoun and this raymond ibrahim do for a living. They don’t seem to have anything better to do with their lives. The argument about the hadith (as follows) is as childish as can be. The hadith :
‘..Another hadith was cited which Ibrahim says ,in a canonical hadith, Muhammad said: “If any of you ever pass gas or soil yourselves during prayers [breaking wudu], hold your nose and leave” (Sunan Abu Dawud):..’
Their conclusion :
‘..Holding one’s nose and leaving implies smelling something offensive—which is true—though people will think it was someone else who committed the offense.”..’
Don’t know about them. Anyone in the mosque who passed gas will have to perform wudu again. Leaving the congregation while holding the nose will mean acknowledgement that one has broken the wudu via ‘natural means’. Nobody as far as I know will be offended as we all know that wudu will be negated upon passing gas or soiling oneself. The smell won’t be pleasant but its a natural process in humans.
Exactly Sami, thats what I said in my recent response to Raymonds claims.
All anyone has to do is look to the Middle East, Africa etc and see what even the Muslim biased/terrified MSM tries to hide: Muslims in Authority first subjugate the Christians/Jews through beatings, rapes, enslavement of the women and murders. Then they start killing their co-religionists for control.
All of the soft words are for today; until they reach a minority which would require a Civil War to dispossess them of this, or any other, country.
As in Europe/UK, etc, the tide Of Quranic, Sharia, Hadith, etc, Laws will continue to take hold despite the easy rational of the Liberal community.
And Christian majority countries are just SOOOO much better; like the way they killed 5 million civilians in Vietnam, 1 million plus civilians in Iraq, God knows how many in Afghanistan (no one’s counting anymore).
At least Muslims just mess up their OWN countries as opposed to bombing everyone else back into the Stone Age.
Show me where these women have been raped and enslaved (except in your wet dreams). Maybe you are thinking of those US troops who raped those Japanese schoolgirls in Okinawa. Maybe you are thinking of those good Christians in the Rwandan genocide or those nice Christians in the Serbian massacres in Bosnia and Kosovo. You know, where they used to rape women and then amputate two of their fingers as a symbol of the Trinity. But it’s o.k; you see, when you get raped and murdered by non – Muslims it’s not REALLY rape and murder! It just SEEMS that way!
Last time I checked, it was Christians like Hitler who were killing and persecuting Jews (when was the last time a MUSLIM killed six million Jews?) and Christians who used the triangular slave trade to build America (while eradicating and raping the Native Americans).
Get your history right jabroni, it’s Christians who like to go on rape and enslavement missions. If not, how did you establish the good ‘ol US of A? Did you get those Natives to move out and the Africans to work for free by asking nicely?
You see kids, this is what happens if you smoke crack during history lessons (whilst already being dumb).
No need for abuse but then sadly these guys ask for it with their constant idiotic accusations of rape and murder every time they see a Muslim. They have nothing better to do than to spam sites with hate mail and then they get a harsh response (though Muslims should restrain themselves and not caricature Christians the way people caricature Muslims).
I really do think that whatever passes for ‘Christian’ civilization is in a very morally precarious place when it comes to accusing others. They ARE responsible for a huge number of deaths relative to the Muslims as Free Lover says, as are the atheist societies like the USSR, China and North Korea etc. yet both of these groups, Christians (bad ones) and atheists seem to expend a huge amount of righteous indignation on ‘atrocities’ by the Muslims rather than any introspection about the behaviour of their own ‘adherents’.
I have disagreed with Free Lover a lot of times and I think he is rude, but everything he says is true, even that stuff about amputating the women’s fingers in Bosnia.
I think if you are going to go around accusing people of rape and murder you should be ready for a a harsh reply.
Muslims have been killing non-Muslims for 1400 years. Muslims are killing Christians in Nigeria. The facts are out. the Historical facts have been recorded. You can lie Taqiyya all you want or lie Tawriya all you want. We are in an age where truth travels very quickly, anyone can learn the Arabic language in a matter of months, if not weeks and read the Quran and Hadith. The order of Chronology exists and the laws of abrogation are well know by scholars.
Your meager and poorly written attempts to ‘enlighten’ us have failed.
but it is Muslims who need protecting against Christian armies that are occupying Muslim lands now, killing their children and urinating on their dead. We need a shield to protect us as this video explains…
http://thedebateinitiative.com/2012/03/16/what-is-missing/
So not one man on earth has found evidence for the god theory yet.
Typical.
The definition of holy war, Killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.
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